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Date:	12/24/99 6:34:29 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, December 24 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1577<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: winning, losing, and not winning wars (was re: England)<BR>
Re: Canada (with an ObTrav)><BR>
Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
Re: England... [WWII Casaulties] <BR>
Re: Christmas and snow.<BR>
Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
High vs Low Automation<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
OT: South after Civil War<BR>
Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: Hiding education<BR>
Santa in the 3rd Imperium?<BR>
Re: England... [WWII Casaulties]<BR>
BBQ and LOX (and I don't mean smoked salmon)<BR>
Re: silly traveller<BR>
C&H (was Re: Hiding education)<BR>
Re: Getting to cons<BR>
Re: 1650BC (was Re: United States)<BR>
Re: Getting to cons<BR>
Re: merchant marine<BR>
Re: Getting to cons<BR>
T4: Marine Officer developement<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:47:52 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: winning, losing, and not winning wars (was re: England)<BR>
<BR>
At 02:26 pm 12/24/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Booth killed Lincoln in 1865, just after the war was<BR>
>over.  Lincoln did not have time to set up the iron<BR>
>thumb (although his field commanders, occupying the<BR>
<BR>
	I'm not a historian, but I thought it was *Lincoln* who wanted<BR>
reconciliation and rebuilding, and the rest of the party that wanted<BR>
vengeance. Killing Lincoln probably made things *worse* for the South<BR>
...<BR>
<BR>
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence<BR>
in TV and movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see<BR>
random acts of situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:52:20 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canada (with an ObTrav)><BR>
<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
<BR>
>I remember being surprised, when I started studying <BR>
>Canadian history (on my own, not the school<BR>
>curriculum) at how militaristic Canada is, in (how<BR>
>else) a quiet way. <BR>
<BR>
>I haven't yet found a really good explanation for <BR>
>this apparent contradiction: apparent pacifism with <BR>
>demonstrated militarism.  I suspect that two <BR>
>significant factors are (a) a view of war as a dirty <BR>
>and dangerous job that needs doing, rather than an <BR>
>adventure, and <BR>
<BR>
It's not such a contradiction.  Canada is not<BR>
militarist.  For example, militarism includes a<BR>
tendency to engage in military adventures for the<BR>
adventurers' own benefit (like taking over Greenland,<BR>
say) and some permeation of culture and government by<BR>
the military (like in Indonesia).  <BR>
<BR>
In addition, military preparedness is one factor in<BR>
ensuring peace, hardly a militaristic goal.  Canada<BR>
also seems to have a commitment to participating in<BR>
the world of which it is part (unlike the USA, which<BR>
fluctuates between isolationism and bullying), and<BR>
military activities are part of that.  <BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: what small, quiet border states muster <BR>
>surprisingly large forces in wartime, which are <BR>
>unknown by the majority of Imperial citizens?   <BR>
<BR>
In my Traveller Universe, the 4518th always has a<BR>
significant number of volunteers from Menorb, which<BR>
has had a "special relationship" with Regina since<BR>
Regina invaded it a long time ago.  (See the article<BR>
on the 4518th in JTAS.)  Menorbian veterans of the<BR>
4518th also figure prominently in many mercenary units<BR>
operating in the Marches.  <BR>
<BR>
The Darrians also provide a lot of forces.  Fifth<BR>
Frontier War includes a TL-16 mercenary unit, which in<BR>
my Traveller universe is a Darrian unit lent to the<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:59:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
<BR>
>Or those of us that have spent a good bit of time <BR>
>walking through hills and hollows.  In some parts of <BR>
>the US, knowing where, and how, to ford a branch is <BR>
>still an important skill.  But, heck, I bet most of <BR>
>you have never seen a small stream called a branch!  <BR>
<BR>
Didn't everybody (in the US, anyway) have to learn to<BR>
read USGS topographical maps in 9th grade Earth<BR>
Science?  Or was my Earth Science teacher (who was, by<BR>
the way, named Mr. Branch -- Col., USAF, ret.), who<BR>
went over that subject until all of us got it, really<BR>
as crazy as everyone said?  <BR>
<BR>
Fording the San Joaquin in the high Sierras last<BR>
summer was an enjoyable challenge.  I think I'm<BR>
getting a pair of neoprene kayaking shoes to wear as<BR>
camp shoes and for river/stream/creek crossings.  So<BR>
far as I know, we don't call them branches in the<BR>
west.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:08:58 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: England... [WWII Casaulties] <BR>
<BR>
>From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
<BR>
>Good question - for me the answer is simple enough. <BR>
>They were (despite the name which was a remnant of <BR>
>our idiotic 1920 - 1941 foreign policy) navy<BR>
>personnel in everything but name. They were not <BR>
>_civilians_.  <BR>
<BR>
The US Merchant Marines were declared veterans by<BR>
legislation some years ago.  My father submitted his<BR>
records and got a box with a bunch of medals.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:36:58 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Christmas and snow.<BR>
<BR>
dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Wimps the lot of ya! Its not christmas without heatstroke! Then again, it never<BR>
> snows here in Sydney during winter, so what chance have we got for a white<BR>
> christmas?<BR>
> <BR>
> ObTRAV: A cultural event from one world is celebrated on another world, with<BR>
> stange/funny results. example , running naked in a Tainted atmosphere or<BR>
> whatever.<BR>
<BR>
No doubt, the original world's atmospheric taint was a low concentration<BR>
of nitrous oxide.  You'd want to have a "dedicated masker", someone who<BR>
keeps his/her/its filter mask on while the other celebrants are<BR>
cavorting, and puts filter masks on celebrants who keel over.<BR>
<BR>
Now, transplant these folks to a world where the taint is _nitric_<BR>
oxide.  OUCH!<BR>
<BR>
Only 2,033 posts to review for keyboard kills to get caught up....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:11:55 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
<BR>
On 12/24/99 at 05:21 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Or those of us that have spent a good bit of time walking through<BR>
>>hills and hollows.  In some parts of the US, knowing where, and<BR>
>>how, to ford a branch is still an important skill.  But, heck, I<BR>
>>bet most of you have never seen a small stream called a branch!<BR>
<BR>
>	Crick, maybe ... but no, not a branch. <BR>
<BR>
A branch is what flows into the crick, usually jest about wide enough to<BR>
spit over. <g><BR>
<BR>
>That's what whaps you in the face if you're not careful following<BR>
>somebody.<BR>
<BR>
Yup, but that's the big'uns, thick as yur thum.  The little'uns are<BR>
switches.  My Pa never whuped me with a branch, but he shor'nuff switched<BR>
me a time or two. <wink><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:34:27 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: High vs Low Automation<BR>
<BR>
On 12/24/99 at 05:44 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: I dunno, this looks more like a religious argument ... imagine a<BR>
>riot in 1107 between the Apostles of Bill and the Lords of Linus or<BR>
>something. Christopher Stasheff had a religious order of "St Cathode of<BR>
>Vidicon" or some such in some of his books.<BR>
<BR>
Being slightly fanciful, I liken it to pre-Virus and post-Virus systems.<BR>
<BR>
Pre-Virus, ie Windows, was almost fully automated and just about *anyone*<BR>
could push a few buttons, tell the computer where they wanted to go and it<BR>
would take them there.  You concentrated on *where* you wanted to go and<BR>
*what* you'd do when you got there. You didn't need to worry much about<BR>
*how* you got there.  Very convenient, but whoa is you if the system<BR>
crashes, because you really don't know how it works and your idea of<BR>
fixing it is to reinstall everything.<BR>
<BR>
Post-Virus, ie DOS/Linux, was much less automated.  The user had to<BR>
interact much more with the systems, telling what, where and how to do<BR>
everything.  Sure everything is harder and often takes longer the first<BR>
time, but if you can learn it you end up with a lot more control and can<BR>
often find a way to make things work even when things go badly wrong.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:46:43 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I *wondered* why I never heard of Woomera being used for anything. That<BR>
> > *really* sucks. Shit, it wouldn't have hurt to just mothball the launch<BR>
> > sites. Even "Abandoned in Place" would have been better.<BR>
> <BR>
> !!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Did *Leonard* just say "shit"?<BR>
> <BR>
> He's been taken over by the uninhibited mind-raping Zhos!  Imperial values<BR>
> are going out the window!  The rocks are starting to accelerate!  It's the<BR>
> End Times! Virus is on its way! Guard the Emperor!<BR>
<BR>
Obviously you didin't follow the entire context of the remark.  He was<BR>
just cursing a Blue Streak....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:48:43 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 24 Dec 1999, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I really think Amiga could have been a much more powerful, robust and stable<BR>
> machine than the others out there.  You can't tell me Gates and his cronies<BR>
> couldn't see what a threat this was and not do something to forestall it.<BR>
> Who would want a crummy Windows PC with its limitations when you can have 10<BR>
> times the machine and a more stable operating system?<BR>
<BR>
Because, as BillyBoy said at the end of 'Pirates of Silicon Valley':<BR>
"People don't _care_ about quality!"<BR>
<BR>
Sadly, still true.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, the Amiga was quite a powerful system. What killed it (as someone<BR>
pointed out in an earlier post) was that everyone expected a faster,<BR>
bigger Commodore 64 and what they got was something almost completely<BR>
different.<BR>
<BR>
That and the people running Commodore at that point apparently couldn't<BR>
sell food to a starving rich man, let alone a revolutionary computer.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:53:51 -0500<BR>
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net><BR>
Subject: OT: South after Civil War<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 13:19:14 EST<BR>
>From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: England<BR>
><BR>
>Honestly...winning is nice, but the prime requirement is do not ever lose.<BR>
No<BR>
>matter what, do not lose. If you lose your people pay dearly, not winning<BR>
>just means that you didn't get what you wanted in the war.<BR>
<BR>
>Ex 2--the south lost the American Civil War, at first, losing much<BR>
>infrastructure and being under the iron thumb of the federal military and<BR>
>government, determined that they toe the current PC line; but when Lincoln<BR>
>died and Johnson became the boss they went to only not winning, getting to<BR>
>keep self government and not being forced into serf status under their new<BR>
>masters from the north.<BR>
<BR>
    Excuse me? Lincoln was for immediate re-integration of the Southern<BR>
states into the Union with voting Senators and Representatives as soon as<BR>
possible and near-immediate return of state government.  His party,<BR>
led by the clique known as the "Black Republicans", opposed him in this.<BR>
With Lincoln's assassination, Johnson attempted to follow Lincoln's intent,<BR>
but lost the struggle with Congress and barely retained his presidency.<BR>
The result was nearly a full generation of carpet-bagger and/or military<BR>
rule of the Southern states. The South "lost" rather than "not-winning" in<BR>
either case, but Lincoln's death/Johnson's failure upped the ante of that<BR>
loss significantly.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: The Sword Worlds/Border Worlds situation post-5FW results in<BR>
some worlds losing, some just not winning, and some worlds, perhaps,<BR>
winning politically/economically when the Sword Worlds lost militarily<BR>
since some individual worlds improved in those categories as members<BR>
of the Border Worlds.<BR>
                                                            Lyle<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:49:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> smallest and delete the other one.  The disadvantage to<BR>
> .gif is that it is limited to 256 colors max, but for most<BR>
> things 256 colors is plenty.<BR>
<BR>
If you need more colors get PNG or at least a conversion program.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:51:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> SFC Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > In mail you write:<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > > I have been known to.  Very often if they do get them,<BR>
>> > > they serve as important clues.  I have had groups chase<BR>
>> > > after the elusive Crimson Clupeidae or the Scarlet<BR>
>> > > AleWife for months, even years (of game time).<BR>
>><BR>
>> Did they have to chop down any trees with either of those?<BR>
><BR>
> How do you chop down trees with someone else's starship?<BR>
><BR>
> Oh, I didn't make it clear that those are names of starships,<BR>
> did I.  Sorry.  They both were.<BR>
><BR>
> Has anyone figured out what significance such a ship<BR>
> would have?<BR>
<BR>
My guess is that both "Alewife" and "Clupeidae" are alternate names for<BR>
"herring".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 13:52:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hiding education<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
> <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>>Well, Saturday morning cartoons don't really exist as<BR>
><BR>
>>they did in the Good Old Days...  Get up at 0700 with<BR>
><BR>
>>a bowl of Frosted Flakes and remain tied to the tube <BR>
>>until noon.<BR>
><BR>
> "Three bowls of Double-Frosted Chocolate Bombs and<BR>
> I'll be hyperactive and incoherent all day!"<BR>
><BR>
> --Calvin, to Hobbes, in front of the tv on a Saturday<BR>
> morning<BR>
<BR>
I though that the cereal was "Chocolate-Frosted Sugar Bombs"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 19:08:06 -0500<BR>
From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com><BR>
Subject: Santa in the 3rd Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
HOW in the universe does Santa manage the logistics of such a vast empire???  I<BR>
have enough trouble figuring out how he covers 20th century Terra.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Happy Holidays<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:28:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: England... [WWII Casaulties]<BR>
<BR>
- --- Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> Took these numbers from Weinberg's A World At Arms<BR>
> (1994). No breakdown on<BR>
> civilian v military but these are numbers from<BR>
> recent research (including the<BR>
> opening of archives in the USSR and to a lesser<BR>
> extent China):<BR>
> <BR>
> USSR: about 25m deaths<BR>
<BR>
I'd just like to note that over the years the reported<BR>
number of USSR deaths has climbed: Stalin said it was<BR>
7 million, Krushchev 17 million, Gorbachev 27 million.<BR>
Note that at the levels of millions of deaths you<BR>
don't get well-documented, named corpses. ALl you can<BR>
do is say, what was the population pre-war, and what<BR>
was the population afterwards, how many are missing?<BR>
The tendency has been for the soviets to attribute<BR>
many of the deaths of the purges and mass deportations<BR>
(eg of the Chechens) of the 30s to the war.<BR>
<BR>
Civilian vs military deaths: over the years, the ratio<BR>
has been at least ten to one for any lengthy conflict<BR>
in which the lands of the nations involved were fought<BR>
on. This has been pretty much constant from at least<BR>
medieval times.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 19:38:06 -0500<BR>
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net><BR>
Subject: BBQ and LOX (and I don't mean smoked salmon)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 10:31:36 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Gone for the holidays, and 1yr anniversary<BR>
(un-attributed quote)<BR>
>> (NB: There was an engineering prof somewhere who's done this a number of<BR>
>> times. He's made Dave Barry's column, and was the killer of the INternet<BR>
>> once upon a time as everyone dl'ed his mpeg of the events...I forget<BR>
>> where it is; it's probably still posted somewhere.)<BR>
><BR>
>I've seen it. And he didn't use *liters* of LOX. Just a cupful. The<BR>
>idea was to get charcoal *ready for cooking* fastest. One of his MPEGs<BR>
>shows the results of using too much. The barbecue melted. <BR>
>Alas, he can't do this anymore, because once the local fire marshal<BR>
>found out, it was ruled as "using explosives". Which is sort of true. A<BR>
>briquet soaked in LOX makes a dandy grenade substitute.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
George Goble, here at Purdue Univ. in W. Lafayette, IN.  Website is:<BR>
http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu<BR>
if anyone wants to see pictures.<BR>
Last time George did it was 1997.  The 1994 BBQ, where they pretty<BR>
much vaporised, not just melted, the grille, 5 gallons of LOX was used.<BR>
The normal, actually functional, amounts are about 60 pounds of charcoal<BR>
and 3 gallons of LOX.  Bit more than a cupful, I'm afraid.<BR>
Damn fascist fire department....grin.<BR>
                                    Lyle<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:47:36 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: silly traveller<BR>
<BR>
Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > > "ECM" [Ethically Challenged Merchant] is a<BR>
> > euphemism<BR>
> > > > for the P-word.<BR>
> The Mysterious Wombat Boy wrote:<BR>
> > No, the "P-word" is...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > *looks around, makes sure that nobody else is<BR>
> > listening*<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Pirate."<BR>
> ><BR>
> > *quickly ducks and runs*<BR>
> <BR>
> Now, new career path... runs just like a merchant<BR>
> character, only the retirement benefits table goes<BR>
> like:<BR>
> 1. cash<BR>
> 2. booty (har har, stuff dat ain't cash yet)<BR>
> 3. parrot<BR>
> 4. cutlass<BR>
> 5. annoyingly persistent law enforcement offical who<BR>
> you killed their child/parent/spouse/partner once but<BR>
> have forgotten it<BR>
> 6. the Explosive Decompression Long Jump<BR>
<BR>
BTW, shouldn't #5 be "Large reptile has eaten one of your limbs, and has<BR>
developed a taste for you"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:42:41 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: C&H (was Re: Hiding education)<BR>
<BR>
On 12/24/99 at 01:52 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>> "Three bowls of Double-Frosted Chocolate Bombs and<BR>
>> I'll be hyperactive and incoherent all day!"<BR>
>><BR>
>> --Calvin, to Hobbes, in front of the tv on a Saturday<BR>
>> morning<BR>
<BR>
>I though that the cereal was "Chocolate-Frosted Sugar Bombs"?<BR>
<BR>
Someone mentioned missing C&H the other day.  Well, there aren't any *new*<BR>
ones, but for a daily fix go to<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/3498/<BR>
<BR>
and if that isn't enough for you try<BR>
<BR>
http://www.eng.buffalo.edu/~clau/CalvinandHobbes/index.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:50:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Getting to cons<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> 2) Fly to SF (IIRC, SD is close to SF), for about $900 RT.<BR>
<BR>
If by SD you mean "San Diego", you have a slight problem... It's not<BR>
only not near San Francisco, it's about 100 miles *south* of LA. It's<BR>
practically on the Mexican border.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:39:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 1650BC (was Re: United States)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 23 Dec 99, at 20:56, Mark Watson wrote:<BR>
>  <BR>
>> >> Myceneans<BR>
>> Mycenae is probably a tributary of Crete in 1650. Somewhere<BR>
>> between then and 1550 Mycenae starts to become more dominant, but<BR>
>> Mycenae's height is around 1300. <BR>
><BR>
> This seems to depend on whether the person doing the writing thinks the <BR>
> Myceneans learnt from the Minoans by being subject, or just by <BR>
> importing Minoan artisans, etc, possibly by piracy and raiding. <BR>
> Personally I go for the Myceneans being a pack of pirates who copied <BR>
> things from their betters, and took over Crete after Thera wiped out <BR>
> most of the Minoan Navy and basing.<BR>
<BR>
You have to *really* wonder what civilization would look like if Thera<BR>
hadn't exploded...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 19:19:18 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Getting to cons<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > 2) Fly to SF (IIRC, SD is close to SF), for about $900 RT.<BR>
> <BR>
> If by SD you mean "San Diego", you have a slight problem... It's not<BR>
> only not near San Francisco, it's about 100 miles *south* of LA. It's<BR>
> practically on the Mexican border.<BR>
<BR>
True, but since the con in question is BayCon (in San Jose), that was<BR>
probably a typo on his part.  And yes, San Jose is reasonably close to<BR>
San Francisco (about an hour or so south, IIRC).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:57:20 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: merchant marine<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: England... [WWII Casaulties]<BR>
...<BR>
>[*Although I wonder how Merchant Marine deaths were counted.  That they<BR>
>took significant losses is obvious to anyone who has visited the memorial<BR>
>at NYC.]<BR>
<BR>
  The vast majority of losses would have been on British-flagged ships,<BR>
and I found a figure of 30K for that, but with no breakdown by crew<BR>
nationalities. The figure for Canadian merchant marine deaths is ~1000+.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:26:05 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Getting to cons<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>> > 2) Fly to SF (IIRC, SD is close to SF), for about $900 RT.<BR>
>><BR>
>> If by SD you mean "San Diego", you have a slight problem... It's not only<BR>
not near San Francisco, it's about 100 miles *south* of LA. It's practically<BR>
on the Mexican border.<BR>
>><BR>
What was that we were saying about the geography thread???<BR>
<BR>
>True, but since the con in question is BayCon (in San Jose), that was<BR>
probably a typo on his part.  And yes, San Jose is reasonably close to San<BR>
Francisco (about an hour or so south, IIRC).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
45 minutes (if there is not significant road congestion) by car-- about 2<BR>
hours by train and connecting bus.  I live in SF, my best friend lives in<BR>
SJ.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:33:20 -0800<BR>
From: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com><BR>
Subject: T4: Marine Officer developement<BR>
<BR>
Hello All;<BR>
What acadamy and university officer corp are used to develop Marine<BR>
characters in T4? Or, if you can point out the rules in the book for me<BR>
to look up.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks & Merry Christmas!   :)<BR>
- --<BR>
Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California<BR>
mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com | http://www.thelair.cnchost.com<BR>
     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only<BR>
one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people<BR>
get what they deserve."   --Zena Marley<BR>
<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER: All that I write is my own opinion, and my opinion may<BR>
not be the opinion of my school or Internet service provider. For that<BR>
matter, it may not be your opinion, but deal with it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1577<BR>
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